(very!) off-topic - a kids riddle: How many holes in this t-shirt.

[R.Wieser]

My apologies if this offends anyone, but here goes:

Just now I saw a few "kids riddles" on YouTube, with one being "How many
holes does this teeshirt have".

Like on these websites:

https://wikr.com/lb-how-many-holes/
http://www.vorply.com/nerdy/list/can-you-count-the-holes/
http://viralslot.com/quiz/quiz-this-riddle-may-seem-simple-but-it-is-stumping-the-internet/2/

The given answer is either four, or eight if you count the standard arm,
neck and rump holes too. They do not even agree with each other on that
account :-D

I think neither is correct, and for the most stupid of reasons. Has anyone
got an idea what I'm getting at, or am I just the odd one out here ?

Oh, and take a load of this:
"According to statistics, only 17% of people immediately give the correct
answer."

According to me that 17% *isn't* giving the correct answer, being either
four *or* eigtht -- though they may be considered a bit more observant than
the ones who answered either two or six. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Charlie Gibbs]

Post by R.Wieser
Just now I saw a few "kids riddles" on YouTube, with one being "How many
holes does this teeshirt have".
https://wikr.com/lb-how-many-holes/
http://www.vorply.com/nerdy/list/can-you-count-the-holes/
http://viralslot.com/quiz/quiz-this-riddle-may-seem-simple-but-it-is-stumping-the-internet/2/
The given answer is either four, or eight if you count the standard arm,
neck and rump holes too. They do not even agree with each other on that
account :-D

I guess it depends on whether you think of "hole" as meaning "extra hole",
as in over and above the standard four.

Post by R.Wieser
I think neither is correct, and for the most stupid of reasons. Has anyone
got an idea what I'm getting at, or am I just the odd one out here ?

Are you getting topological on us? Maybe it's time to look for a
T-shirt in the form of a Klein bottle. While wearing it (if you
can figure out how), you could turn your belt into a Moebius strip
by putting a half-twist in it when you do it up.

[R.Wieser]

Charlie,

Post by Charlie Gibbs
I guess it depends on whether you think of "hole" as meaning
"extra hole", as in over and above the standard four.

Yep, and thats one thing I don't really like about some of those riddles:
Trying to find stuff that can be read in more than one way, and than doing
going all "but *everybody* knows that!" when appointing one as the only
"right" answer. :-(

Post by Charlie Gibbs
Are you getting topological on us?

Nope. Its something *much* simpler. No tricks involved, it just has to do
with assumptions.

But about that Klein bottle, ever heard of the logic "I fit inside my
tshirt, my tshirt fits inside my pocket, ergo: I must fit inside my pocket ?
:-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by R.Wieser
Just now I saw a few "kids riddles" on YouTube, with one being "How many
holes does this teeshirt have".
https://wikr.com/lb-how-many-holes/
http://www.vorply.com/nerdy/list/can-you-count-the-holes/
http://viralslot.com/quiz/quiz-this-riddle-may-seem-simple-but-it-is-stumping-the-internet/2/
The given answer is either four, or eight if you count the standard arm,
neck and rump holes too. They do not even agree with each other on that
account :-D

I guess it depends on whether you think of "hole" as meaning "extra hole",
as in over and above the standard four.

Post by R.Wieser
I think neither is correct, and for the most stupid of reasons. Has anyone
got an idea what I'm getting at, or am I just the odd one out here ?

Are you getting topological on us? Maybe it's time to look for a
T-shirt in the form of a Klein bottle. While wearing it (if you
can figure out how), you could turn your belt into a Moebius strip
by putting a half-twist in it when you do it up.
--
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
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[Kaz Kylheku]

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by R.Wieser
Just now I saw a few "kids riddles" on YouTube, with one being "How many
holes does this teeshirt have".
https://wikr.com/lb-how-many-holes/
http://www.vorply.com/nerdy/list/can-you-count-the-holes/
http://viralslot.com/quiz/quiz-this-riddle-may-seem-simple-but-it-is-stumping-the-internet/2/
The given answer is either four, or eight if you count the standard arm,
neck and rump holes too. They do not even agree with each other on that
account :-D

I guess it depends on whether you think of "hole" as meaning "extra hole",
as in over and above the standard four.

It depends on how you define hole! For instance, does a sock have a
hole? From a topological perspective, no it doesn't (at least not when
in new condition new); it's just a surface stretched into the shape of
an elongated sack.

A pipe has one hole through it; it's basically a very thin
torus/doughnut. Hence a skirt has one hole.

A T-shirt is like a skirt with two more holes for the arms.

Basically the following 2D shape is equivalent to a T-shirt:

______________
/ \
| __ __ __ |
| / || | | \ |
| | || | | | |
| `--'`--' `--' |
\______________/


Two holes for the arms, one hole for the neck. The rump isn't a hole;
it's the outer boundary of the object.

(Or, if you like either of the two arm holes, or the neck hole
could be assigned as the outer boundary of the object, and the other
three features are holes.)

[R.Wieser]

Kaz,

As I tried to make clear in my initial message, I do not really care if the
standard four holes are counted or not (it just that I'm annoyed by the
multi-interpretable question).

And no, there is no topological magic involved. If it would it would not be
a kids riddle anymore. :-)

Its about the answer. Neither four nor eight is correct as far as I'm
concerned. And that for the simpelest of reasons -- having to do with
assumptions.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Post by Kaz Kylheku

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by R.Wieser
Just now I saw a few "kids riddles" on YouTube, with one being "How many
holes does this teeshirt have".
https://wikr.com/lb-how-many-holes/
http://www.vorply.com/nerdy/list/can-you-count-the-holes/
http://viralslot.com/quiz/quiz-this-riddle-may-seem-simple-but-it-is-stumping-the-internet/2/
The given answer is either four, or eight if you count the standard arm,
neck and rump holes too. They do not even agree with each other on that
account :-D

I guess it depends on whether you think of "hole" as meaning "extra hole",
as in over and above the standard four.

It depends on how you define hole! For instance, does a sock have a
hole? From a topological perspective, no it doesn't (at least not when
in new condition new); it's just a surface stretched into the shape of
an elongated sack.
A pipe has one hole through it; it's basically a very thin
torus/doughnut. Hence a skirt has one hole.
A T-shirt is like a skirt with two more holes for the arms.
______________
/ \
| __ __ __ |
| / || | | \ |
| | || | | | |
| `--'`--' `--' |
\______________/
Two holes for the arms, one hole for the neck. The rump isn't a hole;
it's the outer boundary of the object.
(Or, if you like either of the two arm holes, or the neck hole
could be assigned as the outer boundary of the object, and the other
three features are holes.)

[R.Wieser]

Something else I already realized earlier, but didn't jump into focust till
after I went to bed: The difference in questions, and how they could/will
influence the outcome:

1a) "count the holes in a t-shirt"
1b) "How many holes are on (sic) this t-shirt"
2) "How many holes are in this shirt"
3) "How many holes do you see ?"

Like the very first and last questions: Though I *know* that a standard
t-shirt has got four holes for the arms, I can't actually *see* them in the
picture -- and thus not count them either ... The same goes for the holes in
the back. So the answer for those questions *should* be "two".

I do not want to go that road though, and for my origional question I'm
running with variant #2 : How many holes are there in that t-shirt (which,
to me, includes the standard arm, head and rump ones).

But it does show me how the different websites played very loose with a
riddle (did they actually understand the question?), effectivily destroying
it in the process ... :-\


But, back to the origional question: To me the answer is not either four or
eight, and it has to do with an assumption. Does anyone have an idea ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[R.Wieser]

Post by R.Wieser
According to me that 17% *isn't* giving the correct answer, being either
four *or* eigtht -- though they may be considered a bit more observant
than the ones who answered either two or six. :-)
No tricks involved, it just has to do with assumptions.

The assumption I'm refering to is that the back of the shirt is that it will
(effectivily) be a mirror-image of what you see in front.

But why should it be ? What now if the hole in the back is just a single
one, big enough to encompass both of the ones in the front ?

Remember, we know *nothing* about the back of the tshirt, the only thing we
can do is to *infer* what should be there ...

So, to me the answer to the riddle is "at least three" / "at least seven"
(depending on if you count the regular openings as holes too).

... and that also covers a possible pedantic approach in that the invisible
parts of the backside could easily have a few more holes too. :-p

To me the lolz about that riddle is that someone tried to be a wise-ass
about observation powers, but missed something rather obvious (to me) in
that regard ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser